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4.14k reviews for:
Men Who Hate Women: From incels to pickup artists, the truth about extreme misogyny and how it affects us all
Laura Bates
4.34 AVERAGE
4.14k reviews for:
Men Who Hate Women: From incels to pickup artists, the truth about extreme misogyny and how it affects us all
Laura Bates
4.34 AVERAGE
challenging
dark
informative
sad
slow-paced
challenging
dark
informative
It's a tough read, but necessary. I recommended it to everyone I know.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Hate crime, Rape, Violence, Mass/school shootings, Sexual harassment
"Read" in audio book form.
I was aware of some of this stuff already of course, because i see some of these dick-brains online, but hadn't realised the scale of the problem. Whereas I've only paddled in the shallow end, jumping out when the water gets too choppy, Laura Bates has dived in headfirst. She does a good job of mapping the various subgroups, and my sense is that when she uses jargon, she's using it right, understanding what she's seeing.
The main thrust of the argument is that online communities such as incels and MGTOW are a massive sink of resentment and hostility towards women that foments violent crime amongst its members and occasionally boils over into acts that can only really be described as terrorism.
She keeps it tight, focusing on these groups overlapping with the alt right, and seeking to recruit disenchanted and embittered white men. She doesn't really delineate any edges of the scope. But, for example, she doesn't tackle related phenomena in moslem culture, such as honour killing or those guys who are always trying to intimidate anti-FGM campaigners into silence. Presumably that's because they have a different MO and are more likely to already be seen as potential terrorists by law enforcement, so they are to a certain extent a known quantity. And she doesn't deal with a specific type of incel: the "cotton ceiling" gang who are constantly annoying lesbians for not being inclusive enough. Presumably that's a newer phenomenon, smaller and not as well organised. It really has all the same hallmarks though, albeit it's proponents tend to pretend to be left wing.
Its a solid book though, giving strong examples, making a case for why law enforcement should treat extreme misogyny as a terrorist ideology and look out for young men being sucked into its orbit in the same ways as they do for islamism or fascism.
I guess a criticism I could make is where she draws the line between people getting drawn in (therefore needing guidance to see it for what it is) and people who are too far gone (and therefore should be treated as beyond sympathy, basically terrorists already). I get where she's coming from here: people who are already fantasising about enslaving women are probably pretty fucked in the head, but I suppose I think there's a grey area where people aren't too far gone and could be brought back to reality. I think this is where she misses the significance of someone like Jordan Peterson. OK, i know, he sometimes says some daft things and his mental health is pretty precarious, but one of the things I think he's good at is that he treats young men who are without meaning or a place in society, as suffering individuals who can be guided back to having self respect, given purpose and taught to take responsibility for the course of their lives. He isn't just seeing them as problems to be solved so we can all live in the amazing feminized future. Nor is he seeing masculinity as inherently toxic. I think that element of what he does is quite important, and he does manage to channel some of that black pill energy into more constructive areas, and I think we should learn from that, even if we don't go along with every utterance. Part of the problem here is - as she rightly says - that a lot of content on YouTube featuring JP is in the form of clips where he is just out of context mauling someone who has tried to trip him up with a question or whatever. That skews people's perception of him, but I think he's a more interesting character than he's sometimes painted. Lots of weird fans with daddy issues, true, but not all bad IMHO.
++++ a bit later ++++
LOL, did I really just dedicate half of that to a defence of Jordan Peterson? He only gets mentioned a couple of times in the book, but I think the precise nature of why she is wrong about him seems key to understanding where I think the debate needs to go, starting from the excellent basis she's given us in this book. That's all really.
I was aware of some of this stuff already of course, because i see some of these dick-brains online, but hadn't realised the scale of the problem. Whereas I've only paddled in the shallow end, jumping out when the water gets too choppy, Laura Bates has dived in headfirst. She does a good job of mapping the various subgroups, and my sense is that when she uses jargon, she's using it right, understanding what she's seeing.
The main thrust of the argument is that online communities such as incels and MGTOW are a massive sink of resentment and hostility towards women that foments violent crime amongst its members and occasionally boils over into acts that can only really be described as terrorism.
She keeps it tight, focusing on these groups overlapping with the alt right, and seeking to recruit disenchanted and embittered white men. She doesn't really delineate any edges of the scope. But, for example, she doesn't tackle related phenomena in moslem culture, such as honour killing or those guys who are always trying to intimidate anti-FGM campaigners into silence. Presumably that's because they have a different MO and are more likely to already be seen as potential terrorists by law enforcement, so they are to a certain extent a known quantity. And she doesn't deal with a specific type of incel: the "cotton ceiling" gang who are constantly annoying lesbians for not being inclusive enough. Presumably that's a newer phenomenon, smaller and not as well organised. It really has all the same hallmarks though, albeit it's proponents tend to pretend to be left wing.
Its a solid book though, giving strong examples, making a case for why law enforcement should treat extreme misogyny as a terrorist ideology and look out for young men being sucked into its orbit in the same ways as they do for islamism or fascism.
I guess a criticism I could make is where she draws the line between people getting drawn in (therefore needing guidance to see it for what it is) and people who are too far gone (and therefore should be treated as beyond sympathy, basically terrorists already). I get where she's coming from here: people who are already fantasising about enslaving women are probably pretty fucked in the head, but I suppose I think there's a grey area where people aren't too far gone and could be brought back to reality. I think this is where she misses the significance of someone like Jordan Peterson. OK, i know, he sometimes says some daft things and his mental health is pretty precarious, but one of the things I think he's good at is that he treats young men who are without meaning or a place in society, as suffering individuals who can be guided back to having self respect, given purpose and taught to take responsibility for the course of their lives. He isn't just seeing them as problems to be solved so we can all live in the amazing feminized future. Nor is he seeing masculinity as inherently toxic. I think that element of what he does is quite important, and he does manage to channel some of that black pill energy into more constructive areas, and I think we should learn from that, even if we don't go along with every utterance. Part of the problem here is - as she rightly says - that a lot of content on YouTube featuring JP is in the form of clips where he is just out of context mauling someone who has tried to trip him up with a question or whatever. That skews people's perception of him, but I think he's a more interesting character than he's sometimes painted. Lots of weird fans with daddy issues, true, but not all bad IMHO.
++++ a bit later ++++
LOL, did I really just dedicate half of that to a defence of Jordan Peterson? He only gets mentioned a couple of times in the book, but I think the precise nature of why she is wrong about him seems key to understanding where I think the debate needs to go, starting from the excellent basis she's given us in this book. That's all really.
challenging
dark
informative
inspiring
sad
slow-paced
My rating is a 4.25.
Men who hate women is a very informative book that talks about how easy it is to become a part of incel culture and how that looks in our society. While we often view these men as jokes, the history of violence shows a completely different story.
There was a point in my life where I felt insecure and thought I would be alone my whole life and it was so easy to blame women. I luckily went and found therapy and someone who showed me that it’s not women’s fault at all. But I could easily see in a different life me becoming one of these gross men.
This book shows how easily it is to become a part of this culture and how ingrained into society these views sadly are. They even recently made a whole limited series called adolescence talking about out these very issues.
There are parts that are hard to read as a victim of SA and someone who loves and respects women, hearing what people say about the author and women in general was just vile. You should read this if you want a better understanding of incel culture and how it affects our youth.
Men who hate women is a very informative book that talks about how easy it is to become a part of incel culture and how that looks in our society. While we often view these men as jokes, the history of violence shows a completely different story.
There was a point in my life where I felt insecure and thought I would be alone my whole life and it was so easy to blame women. I luckily went and found therapy and someone who showed me that it’s not women’s fault at all. But I could easily see in a different life me becoming one of these gross men.
This book shows how easily it is to become a part of this culture and how ingrained into society these views sadly are. They even recently made a whole limited series called adolescence talking about out these very issues.
There are parts that are hard to read as a victim of SA and someone who loves and respects women, hearing what people say about the author and women in general was just vile. You should read this if you want a better understanding of incel culture and how it affects our youth.
dark
informative
medium-paced
challenging
dark
informative
sad
medium-paced
A distressing look behind the curtain of different iterations of misogynistic men and how they influence (and end) the lives of all people. Honestly a horrifying read about how the manosphere preys on vulnerable men and inflicts violence and hate on women, largely in the quagmire of the internet away from the scrutiny of adults.
Would be a great book club book for people who work with or live with kids. I wonder if a kid-friendly version would resonate with and help children.
Needed a palette cleanser after each listening session.
Would be a great book club book for people who work with or live with kids. I wonder if a kid-friendly version would resonate with and help children.
Needed a palette cleanser after each listening session.
Content Warnings
Graphic: Misogyny, Rape, Sexual violence, Violence
Moderate: Cursing, Domestic abuse, Emotional abuse, Racism, Xenophobia, Islamophobia, Mass/school shootings, Stalking
Minor: Child death, Racial slurs, Suicidal thoughts
challenging
dark
informative
medium-paced
informative
medium-paced
challenging
informative
medium-paced
informative
medium-paced