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herroicj's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
mysterious
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Plot
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
3.5
bertanyewest's review against another edition
challenging
dark
emotional
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.0
lfields19's review against another edition
4.0
This book was really interesting. I don't think the movie was much like it, but I'm going to have to watch it again now. It lost a star for the abrupt ending.
kingofspain93's review against another edition
5.0
in her afterword to Nine and a Half Weeks, the author's daughter writes that she is proud her mother "found the inner strength to leave her lover and the abusive situation their affair had become." this was something I heard prior to reading the book, that it was "just about abuse." not only does McNeill never once use the word "abusive," but her memoir ends with her wondering if she will in fact ever find another lover who will make her feel hot again.
it seems like McNeill had a very strong submissive dynamic that included a desire for both bondage and pain, and that the man she writes about was the first person she encountered sexually who knew anything about how to meet those needs. I think that, having apparently not realized the extent of her own dynamic and the fact that others experienced it, McNeill probably considered her experience with the man a one-off that could not be replicated or pursued again. it's possible, too, that when he did behave unethically it was indistinguishable from the rest of their sex because she didn't have language to describe good versus bad doms.
I read this because it was referenced in SM 101: A Practical Introduction. Wiseman wrote that his motivation for writing that book was to educate the many, many people who wanted to practice BDSM but whose only resources were, at times, a single experience that they would ask their next lover to replicate, or word-of-mouth descriptions of bondage or domination that they would attempt without any idea of the safety measures required.* in short, he wanted to raise awareness about the fact that BDSM can be and generally is practiced safely and ethically. in short, Wiseman wrote his book for exactly someone like McNeill, who had one BDSM relationship that was very often exactly what she wanted, at many other times unethical and not what she wanted, and who was left doubting whether she could ever have the kind of sex that worked for her dynamic again because she had no language for what she had experienced. I'm not sure if, after Nine and a Half Weeks got published, McNeill was ever contacted by members of the BDSM community; I hope she was. clearly it had an impact, given that Wiseman was writing about it ten years later.
finally, there are three or four points in this book where I think the man behaves unethically, sometimes extremely. that said, I think that much of the time he was ethical, and attentive to McNeill while she was bound and while he was causing pain as much as when he was pampering her. it might be useful to point out that I think that what would have outraged audiences in the '70s (the infliction of pain during sex, bondage, a man devoting himself to a woman's care to the point of feeding her and dressing her) is probably slightly different from what would outrage people now (the lack of verbal consent). most often, the man starts or stops a sexual encounter not because of anything McNeill does or does not say, but because he is paying attention to her body language and thinking about her dynamic needs and limits. according to McNeill ("I loved it. I loved it, I loved it, I loved it, I loved it.") much of the time this works for her. sometimes, it doesn't, and this is where a dom's ability to read their sub's body language needs to be complemented by a word or signal the sub can use to end the encounter. any attempt to reduce the relationship in this book to the categories of "abusive" or "not abusive" necessarily excludes much of what actually happens, and I would be extremely wary of anyone who made such an attempt.
while I think the man was an unethical dom for a few reasons, the danger of uncritically labeling this an abusive relationship is that it paints all BDSM as inherently abusive AND suggests that the only consent that matters is verbal. it's worth pointing out that these are both anachronistic to the 1970s; neither the language of consent which is commonplace now nor the vocabulary of BDSM were widespread. to say that McNeill's relationship, which she adored, was abusive is a bold claim which goes against her experience of it and her own description of what we could call consent, which in her case was largely non-verbal. similarly, it is a liberty of me to use BDSM terminology to describe the relationship, and I do so with the understanding that this book is now representative of BDSM relationships in media even if it was not to McNeill when she wrote it.
I'm giving this book five stars not because I think every aspect of their relationship was ethical or because I think their exact relationship is something everyone should emulate. everyone's relationship, whether they are BDSM practitioners or not, will look different. I'm rating it so highly because it was fantastic reading for thinking about my own ethics, because I enjoyed how much McNeill enjoyed having good sex and being treated lavishly, and because it problematized how quickly I jump to use the word "abuse" for relationships where the women themselves would not use this word. essentially, sex is complicated, and it's good to think about it because it's better to recognize how intricate sex is and be ethical than be sloppy and unethical. on top of all of this, McNeill's writing is strong, interesting, and unaffected. I'm planning to read her memoir about exploring her grandfather's past (or something, I'm don't really care) not because it's related to BDSM but just because I liked her writing.
*as always, it's worth noting that BDSM is an amazing practice and community because while all sex requires people to understand their own values and behave ethically, BDSM foregrounds ethics and value choices in a way that is often taken for granted in other kinds of sexual experiences where consent is expected to be the only sexual ethic (and even then if you're lucky).
it seems like McNeill had a very strong submissive dynamic that included a desire for both bondage and pain, and that the man she writes about was the first person she encountered sexually who knew anything about how to meet those needs. I think that, having apparently not realized the extent of her own dynamic and the fact that others experienced it, McNeill probably considered her experience with the man a one-off that could not be replicated or pursued again. it's possible, too, that when he did behave unethically it was indistinguishable from the rest of their sex because she didn't have language to describe good versus bad doms.
I read this because it was referenced in SM 101: A Practical Introduction. Wiseman wrote that his motivation for writing that book was to educate the many, many people who wanted to practice BDSM but whose only resources were, at times, a single experience that they would ask their next lover to replicate, or word-of-mouth descriptions of bondage or domination that they would attempt without any idea of the safety measures required.* in short, he wanted to raise awareness about the fact that BDSM can be and generally is practiced safely and ethically. in short, Wiseman wrote his book for exactly someone like McNeill, who had one BDSM relationship that was very often exactly what she wanted, at many other times unethical and not what she wanted, and who was left doubting whether she could ever have the kind of sex that worked for her dynamic again because she had no language for what she had experienced. I'm not sure if, after Nine and a Half Weeks got published, McNeill was ever contacted by members of the BDSM community; I hope she was. clearly it had an impact, given that Wiseman was writing about it ten years later.
finally, there are three or four points in this book where I think the man behaves unethically, sometimes extremely. that said, I think that much of the time he was ethical, and attentive to McNeill while she was bound and while he was causing pain as much as when he was pampering her. it might be useful to point out that I think that what would have outraged audiences in the '70s (the infliction of pain during sex, bondage, a man devoting himself to a woman's care to the point of feeding her and dressing her) is probably slightly different from what would outrage people now (the lack of verbal consent). most often, the man starts or stops a sexual encounter not because of anything McNeill does or does not say, but because he is paying attention to her body language and thinking about her dynamic needs and limits. according to McNeill ("I loved it. I loved it, I loved it, I loved it, I loved it.") much of the time this works for her. sometimes, it doesn't, and this is where a dom's ability to read their sub's body language needs to be complemented by a word or signal the sub can use to end the encounter. any attempt to reduce the relationship in this book to the categories of "abusive" or "not abusive" necessarily excludes much of what actually happens, and I would be extremely wary of anyone who made such an attempt.
while I think the man was an unethical dom for a few reasons, the danger of uncritically labeling this an abusive relationship is that it paints all BDSM as inherently abusive AND suggests that the only consent that matters is verbal. it's worth pointing out that these are both anachronistic to the 1970s; neither the language of consent which is commonplace now nor the vocabulary of BDSM were widespread. to say that McNeill's relationship, which she adored, was abusive is a bold claim which goes against her experience of it and her own description of what we could call consent, which in her case was largely non-verbal. similarly, it is a liberty of me to use BDSM terminology to describe the relationship, and I do so with the understanding that this book is now representative of BDSM relationships in media even if it was not to McNeill when she wrote it.
I'm giving this book five stars not because I think every aspect of their relationship was ethical or because I think their exact relationship is something everyone should emulate. everyone's relationship, whether they are BDSM practitioners or not, will look different. I'm rating it so highly because it was fantastic reading for thinking about my own ethics, because I enjoyed how much McNeill enjoyed having good sex and being treated lavishly, and because it problematized how quickly I jump to use the word "abuse" for relationships where the women themselves would not use this word. essentially, sex is complicated, and it's good to think about it because it's better to recognize how intricate sex is and be ethical than be sloppy and unethical. on top of all of this, McNeill's writing is strong, interesting, and unaffected. I'm planning to read her memoir about exploring her grandfather's past (or something, I'm don't really care) not because it's related to BDSM but just because I liked her writing.
*as always, it's worth noting that BDSM is an amazing practice and community because while all sex requires people to understand their own values and behave ethically, BDSM foregrounds ethics and value choices in a way that is often taken for granted in other kinds of sexual experiences where consent is expected to be the only sexual ethic (and even then if you're lucky).
ivyrequiem's review against another edition
3.0
It was interesting to read about this particular story, this love affair that surely was everything out of the ordinary.
Elizabeth (Ingeborg) had a really beautiful language sometimes, and I thought it was interesting to read about her relationship with this (frightening) man. Some areas were though a little too detailed when it came to irrelevant stuff (like what he had in his wardrobe etc). But it was interesting! And somewhat sad and dark in a way too.
Elizabeth (Ingeborg) had a really beautiful language sometimes, and I thought it was interesting to read about her relationship with this (frightening) man. Some areas were though a little too detailed when it came to irrelevant stuff (like what he had in his wardrobe etc). But it was interesting! And somewhat sad and dark in a way too.
marinapetal's review against another edition
dark
emotional
sad
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
2.25
idek how to rate a book about a toxic relationship that led a woman to depression. obviously, it didn’t bring me joy, but only consolidated my faith in being anti-kink. seriously, why is this a thing?(
Content Warnings
Graphic: Physical abuse, Toxic relationship, Emotional abuse, Sexual content, and Mental illness
vanessakm's review
3.0
I had forgotten I had read this until my (delightful) GR friend Robin mentioned it.
And let's be real, any woman who read this did it for one reason:
No, shhhhh. Don't Google "Mickey Rourke today."
It's safe to say "erotica" is not really my jam, but when I heard there was a book of this movie, I had to read it. The book is a much more stripped down, supposedly true story written under a pseudonym about...I don't know what you'd call it? Light S&M affair maybe....that lasted as long as the title.
I don't remember this being as cringily emotionally abusive as the movie (like John paying a ferris wheel operator to strand Elizabeth at the top on their first date which, girl), but it also went into some details that were just as well kept out of the movie (I'm just going to say "tampon" and leave it at that.)
Speaking of cringey, about 10 years later Mickey Rourke did a shit-tastic soft porn movie called Wild Orchid where I'm convinced he styled and dressed himself. This is a guy who would strand a first date at the top of a ferris wheel (and maybe, give her HPV):
A sports coat and no shirt? What occasion is he even dressed for?
And let's be real, any woman who read this did it for one reason:
No, shhhhh. Don't Google "Mickey Rourke today."
It's safe to say "erotica" is not really my jam, but when I heard there was a book of this movie, I had to read it. The book is a much more stripped down, supposedly true story written under a pseudonym about...I don't know what you'd call it? Light S&M affair maybe....that lasted as long as the title.
I don't remember this being as cringily emotionally abusive as the movie (like John paying a ferris wheel operator to strand Elizabeth at the top on their first date which, girl), but it also went into some details that were just as well kept out of the movie (I'm just going to say "tampon" and leave it at that.)
Speaking of cringey, about 10 years later Mickey Rourke did a shit-tastic soft porn movie called Wild Orchid where I'm convinced he styled and dressed himself. This is a guy who would strand a first date at the top of a ferris wheel (and maybe, give her HPV):
A sports coat and no shirt? What occasion is he even dressed for?
horrorghoul's review against another edition
1.0
Dnf. Garbage. Struggled to even get half way through. Current notes.
I've never seen this movie but I have heard about it. The book is so small I figured I'd start there and then watch the movie.
Upon starting this book I was already regretting putting off the movie for the book.
This book is so exhausting and not because it's hot and steamy, but because we get the details about everything that doesn't matter. The author takes 6 pages to describe his room, his clothes, and even his dry cleaner. What's the point?
I
I've never seen this movie but I have heard about it. The book is so small I figured I'd start there and then watch the movie.
Upon starting this book I was already regretting putting off the movie for the book.
This book is so exhausting and not because it's hot and steamy, but because we get the details about everything that doesn't matter. The author takes 6 pages to describe his room, his clothes, and even his dry cleaner. What's the point?
I
dcree9's review against another edition
3.0
Easy to see where the inspiration for "50 Shades" came from.